Engineering Leadership Series - Enric Ribas

Today’s post features an interview with engineering leader Enric Ribas. Enric is the VP of Engineering at Botco.ai. We dive into his interesting story as well as some of his predictions for the future, and his life goals. Please enjoy.

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Kory (DoneStreet):

Tell us a little bit about your background story. How you got to where you are? You can break things down by first job, last job, worst job, best job, and weirdest job.

Enric:

Yeah, I've had lot of jobs over the years. My first job was when I was fifteen doing database management work for a company. Then, I left the computer field and got an architecture degree. I worked at my dad's engineering firm for a while before trying my hand as a day trader. I then worked at a bank for a brief period of time. I worked in construction a bit as well.

Finally I got full-time into SaaS around fifteen years ago around 2009. I started out doing some solo consulting work and then I decided to get into the startup world joining Influitive. From there I’ve been going from SaaS company to SaaS company.

I've had a couple of experiences that weren't great. One of which was a company who kind of went bankrupt. They had some questionable ethics that I did not agree with and I quit. Unfortunately a very toxic workplace.

In terms of some of the best, I think my early years at Influitive were probably the best. They were exciting times. It was small, it was very agile. We were working hard long hours, but it was very collaborative. And it was kind of the beginning of some of the web framework stuff that was coming out. It was fast paced and really fun.

Kory:

That’s a pretty interesting background story with you having an architecture degree and making the transition to Software. What sparked the interest in architecture, and then what made you want to move away from that?

Enric:

Yeah. I think growing up I’d always been interested in architecture, and I’m still interested in it. I still love doing renovations and things like that such as design. I missed that part of the architecture world. I think a lot of the work that happens nowadays in architecture is pretty uninteresting. 99% of the architects are doing strip malls or sub developments and things like that. Projects that do not allow them to work under a very creative license. And it's only really few, very, very few privileged architects that get to do of anything interesting. So, I was a little bit disillusioned with the industry and some of that once I graduated and my first job in the field. But, still love the design. I just don't get a chance to do it too often.

Alex (DoneStreet):

So it sounds like you've basically been around for much of the SaaS boom from 2010 through today. So, how has that whole world evolved? Have there been big changes over the last fifteen years and are you still excited about the space? Are there still new and interesting spaces that can be tackled for SaaS platforms?

Enric:

Yeah, I think there are. I think things go through cycles. You see these big booms and then these mini “busts”. There’s never really a bust in the tech world but it's more of slight slow down. People get optimistic. People get Pessimistic. You’ll hear people say, “Oh, the end of the programming is coming because the AI is gonna replace all jobs. I've seen that five times already. It's like “This web framework is gonna replace all jobs”, or “JavaScript is going replace all jobs”. The computer is going to replace all jobs. The internet is going replace all jobs. You see those kind of cycles happen, but things don't really change. It’s more like the terms change. So yes, there’s still a lot of really exciting stuff.

In the early 2010’s startups would be say “The most important thing is that you grow, grow, grow,” and now there's been, a bit of a pull back. And people are saying let’s grow responsibly. Not everyone is going to IPO. You do see a bit of a mentality shift in that, even from VCs and what people expect from companies. I think we'll get into another cycle, where grow, grow, grow is, is the most important thing. We'll just be right back in that same loop.

Kory:

Do you think that’s correlated with interest rate policy and access to cheap money?

Enric:

Yeah, I don't know which is the tail wagging the dog there. But yeah definitely, there's a correlation. You know, cheaper money means more VCs have money to send and put somewhere. They’ve got to dump it somewhere so they throw it at of companies. You know, in 2007, before the dot com bust you could create a pitch deck in an hour and get funded in two hours. So when interest rates were low, people didn't know how to get rid of their money quick enough. Interest rates went higher and all of a sudden it's like, oh, wait a minute, we have to think about where we're putting our money. But it's gonna come back, They’re starting to go low. So we’ll probably be right back to grow at all costs. Grow quicker than everybody else Mentality.

But right now because it's a little hard to get money, everyone's thinking a little bit more about sustainably growing and profitability. We’ll forget all about that in then a couple of years.

Alex:

And do you think the hiring practices have evolved in the SaaS industry over the last ten or fifteen years? In the past, we'd always hear about these crazy Google interviews and how difficult they were. Are you still seeing that kind of process today?

Enric:

For sure. Yeah, there's definitely huge changes. You know, ten years ago if you didn't have a computer science degree, it was very difficult to get a job. There would be certain qualifications you have to have and certain things that you have to have just to get your foot in the door. There were a lot of weird things that people would make you do. Things like, write a sorting algorithm in the fastest possible way even if you had done a sorting algorithm in your life. It was just part of the process.

So, I think there's been a big change away from some of that stuff to more pragmatic skills, communication skills, people skills, understanding, comprehension. It becomes, how do you drive value and not just do you appear like you’re a good programmer.

If you’re remote or willing to do some level of remote, your pool of engineers right now is much vaster than it used to be. The process has gotten a lot simpler because it used to be like seven interviews to get a job and now it's like one or two interviews. So it's become a little bit more rounded in terms of what they're looking for and I think they've got more efficient at finding what that is in a much shorter timeframe.

Kory:

In your current role how do you approach leadership? What do you think make some of a successful leader and how do you handle managing a team?

Enric:

Yeah, I mean, that kind of stuff is vastly different depending on the size of the company. Whether you're at a seven person startup or a thousand person company, different factors come in. In general I try to stay out of the way. Engineers are of a very particular mindset. They love working, but they love working on the stuff that they love working on. The technology has to be right. They have to feel like they're contributing.

That’s most engineers. You know, there are some that are just pure mercenaries and don't care. It's his job and they get paid. But we’ve been so spoiled that we’ve had choices of jobs for so long, that a high paying job isn’t good enough. It has to be something that for the most part from most engineers, you feel like you're doing something good. You're contributing to society, doing something good. Something you can tell your friends about and be proud of. And then also also working in the coolest latest tech. That's also a huge one for people.

I think my leadership style is get out of the way, let people do what they want. Make sure they're excited about what they're working on. Make sure that they have a cause. Good communication and let people work together.

I'm huge on pair programming and things like that. People can get stuck and get really frustrated on things. But, if you work in teams or pairs, you learn from others and it’s a lot easier to write better code. Not a huge insight here, but try to let people do what they’re best at. Don't force them to do the things that they're not good at. And make sure they're enjoying it, delivering value and working on new-ish tech. You can't always be at the cutting-edge. But make sure you're always kind of working on stuff that's interesting new enough to be engaging.

Kory:

It sounds like you definitely believe in empowering employees and team members to have a lot of autonomy versus micro management.

Enric:

Exactly, exactly. You know, I'm an assistant there. I'm a helper. I'm supposed to help them do the best they can, but I'm not there to just say do A, B. The more I can let them do it on their own, the better they’ll be and the more that I can get done. But I'm there as a guide to help them along.

Kory:

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense too. One of the best quotes I’ve heard about leadership was “You’re a good manager when you realize that your employees don't work for you, you work for them.” So, it sounds like you’ve kind of embodied that in your approach and I think a lot of your team members probably really appreciate that.

Enric:

Right, yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think that there are times when you have to be a little tougher. Ultimately though I need them as much as they need me and I need to make sure that they're happy and fulfilled. To make sure that they’re performing at their best and have all the resources and tools and that they need to get it done.

Kory:

Looking back at your journey and your story, if you were to give your younger self some advice, what would you tell yourself?

Enric:

I guess, just jump in. I think I've always been like, “oh, you should get more into SaaS”. Or, you should get more into this or that. And I've kind of always been very cautious in terms of “I don't know if I can do this, I don't know if I can do that.” I wasn't sure if I'd be a good developer you. And it took me a while to say, oh okay, I'm just gonna jump in and do it.

So, I think a lot of times a lot of the stuff seems very intimidating to learn whether it's management or business, or finance or programming, or marketing or sales. Whatever, you're not good at, just jump in and do it. Because everyone had to learn. Everyone started at zero. Sales people don't think they can program. Programmers don’t think they can do sales. You can, you just have to jump in and do it. So, I think my advice to myself would have been just jump in earlier and start doing it.

Kory:

If you could work on any project in the world or any type of product, what would you work on and what excites to you in the world today?

Enric:

Right now I think what’s really exciting is AI. We’ve seen these big phase changes in society. Computers, the internet. Previously if you wanted to look something up, you’d have to go down to the library and find a book on it. Then, the internet comes out and it’s just there. The information is at your fingertips. But, with so much information out there, now it's difficult to access. It becomes where do you look? Now with AI, it’s the next phase. You just type something and you get an answer.

Obviously there's accuracy issues and things. You have to verify sources and there is misinformation. But, so much information is available at your finger tips right now with AI. And so much of the mundane kind of processing that can be taken care of by AI. There’s gonna be a huge job shift, like the internet or computers or anything, have created a giant job shift. AI is no different, it's probably even on a ten x scale. I think it's gonna allow so many more things to be built because we're building on the shoulders of the AI git that are that out there now. So, I'm excited about that world. The next phase of technology shifts and AI.

Alex:

Many, many software engineering jobs today are in the SaaS space, or advertising space and similar industries? Do you think that many software engineers will transition to working on more AI specific tasks?

Enric:

For sure, absolutely. When I was younger, I used to tell people that every job will involve computers. People would say no, no, no. I’m going to be a mechanic, I’ll never need a computer. And now what, how do you diagnose cars? The first thing you do is hook up your car to a computer.

If you don't know computers in 2024, you’re in trouble finding a job in any field. Whether it's a doctor, lawyer or anything. I think AI will be the same thing in ten years. If you don't understand the basics of AI prompt engineering, how all that works, what an LLM is, then in ten years you're going to have the same problem as if you didn't understand computers today. I think it's that gonna be that fundamental to every job out there whether your doctor or lawyer mechanic. It's gonna be part of the process. So, yeah, I think everyone has to learn it.

Alex:

Do you think there's kind of a limit to how much it can change our lives? I mean, I would describe our modern lives as kind of easy already. We have computers and access to all this information. So how good can our lives get because of AI. Is there sort of a limit there?

Enric:

Yeah, it's difficult to predict the future, if you look at life pre-internet and post internet, for some people life was “easier” pre-internet. Obviously the internet pushed us way ahead overall. For AI, it’ll probably be something similar. Some things will be better and some things will be worse. We’ll have new issues like who’s controlling the models and who’s designing the models information. What information is feeding and what biases do the models have. I do think it will improve many lives though. It’s just going to be something new. Like look at how many jobs the internet replaced and the jobs it created. With AI, a lot of jobs will go away and there will be humans with more time on their hands.

Every major automation whether it’s machinery, robotics, cars, or electricity has always been fought because people are like, what's going to happen to all the jobs and this is no different. It's just that now, it's taking on the white color jobs and people are like, wait a minute now my job is at risk. Now I care.

Kory:

So, let's say in a hypothetical situation you had $5 million to fund an idea, almost like a bounty, what type of product or service would you want to see exist in the world that doesn't exist or you're unaware of.

Enric:

It would probably be something around access to information and information gathering. Somehow creating a resource of knowledge accessible to everyone. So something targeted towards less advanced areas that do not have access to computers or smart ear buds or smart glasses. Those people are going to get left behind so I’d love to do something in a low tech kind of way. How do I get more information to more people in a cheapish device that doesn’t have to be the latest iPhone or Android. There could be a divide between people who have smart tech and AI in their ears and can ask it questions and people who don’t have that access and the divide is going to get bigger and bigger. So I would love to try and do something to give the lesser fortunate. Those who don’t have the latest tech or who have trouble getting internet access, giving them an opportunity to stay up to date.

Kory:

How do you stay current on news and advancements and learning. What are some of your favorite sources and, and what are you currently reading and learning about right now?

Enric:

Yeah good question. Mostly different Youtube channels, websites like Dev.to. I also have lots of Slack groups with people I’ve worked with in the past. People share new developments and news. I’m not too active in searching out new things. It seems news just shows up or comes through my network.

Right Now I’m learning about a lot of AI stuff. Different models, different algorithms, prompt engineering. Also learning about new databases that are coming out. There used to be a lot of releases of frameworks and now it’s shifting to more platform as a service offerings. I’ve been learning about those because they can handle the entire backend while you build your app. I think that will enable smaller SaaS companies to compete with larger companies with hundreds of employees. The mundane stuff that’s done for every app can be handled for you and you focus on your idea. There’s Convex, Appwrite, Firebase and a few more. So learning about those and AI.

Kory:

Last question. When you're eighty and looking back, what do you want to accomplished in your life professionally or personally?

Enric:

I think about that sometimes. I’ve had a varied career and done some interesting things, but I just hope that I can leave the world in a better place than I found it. Like I contributed, something. Sure, you had a cool job here or there. I owned a bar for a while. But it’s like, does that really add value to society. You know, I hope I can do something where I can have some positive feedback on people’s lives. Just as long as you improve some people’s lives and maybe some people are grateful that you could help them out.

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